Thursday, April 1, 2010

Some OL Talk

***

Here is the current depth chart:

LT - Jason Peters .......... King Dunlap
LG - Todd Herremans ... Mike McGlynn
OC - Nick Cole ............ Jamaal Jackson ....... Dallas Reynolds
RG - Stacy Andrews ..... Max Jean-Gilles
RT - Winston Justice ..... Fenuki Tupo

There are some questions and concerns with the group, but the Eagles like this O-line and think it has the potential to be pretty darn good. 

Jason Peters was called "the worst LT in the NFL" by a website recently.  They had some statistical data to back up their claim.  That's all well and good, but clearly Peters isn't a bad player, let alone the worst.  They used some stats that a guy would only accumulate if he in fact played the whole year.  And obviously if Peters was a bad player he wouldn't have stayed on the field. 

Jason was inconsistent in 2009.  He had some terrific games and some downers.  He does need to get better.  Andy Reid refers to him as the best LT in football, but that's not true either.  Jason has the potential to be among the best, but he has got some work to do.  He has a full offseason with us this year.  He knows the scheme and blocking techniques we use.  He's healthy.  There are no excuses right now.  Jason needs to play at a high level in 2010. 

Todd Herremans is a player the team has mixed feelings about.  He looks like a Pro Bowl player at times, but must be more consistent.  I think he could be a star for a team that ran the ball more than we do.  Todd was sloppy down the stretch last year.  I hope to see him break through this year and play well the whole season.

Nick Cole is the front runner for C.  He didn't play well there in the final couple of games, but I think a whole offseason spent practicing in the middle will make a huge difference.  Playing C for us is different than other teams.  We ask the C to do a lot.  That's one of the reasons we won't be taking Maurkice Pouncey at #24.  Taking that guy and throwing him in as our starter just isn't the way we do things.  The Eagles like someone to come in and learn the scheme so that he can handle blitz calls and line adjustments.  We throw a lot of passes.  We do a lot of shotgun.  We run a lot of screens.  All of those things put added pressure on the C. 

Nick will be challenged for the job by Mike McGlynn.  I listed him at G on the depth chart, but Mike will get a chance to compete for the C spot.  He's had a quiet 2 years, but has learned well and is now ready to show what he can do. 

Stacy Andrews should be light years better than 2009.  He's healthy and in good shape (334 pounds).  He knows the offense and the blocking scheme.  He will have a full spring and summer of reps.  Expect him to look like a completely changed man this year.  I'm not telling you he'll be a Pro Bowl type, but he should be a solid starter, or better. 

The question with Winston is how good he can be.  He made giant strides last year.  Can he get even better now that he's got experience and confidence?  Maybe.  I don't want to falsely build up expectations that he can develop into a force at RT.  Winston's track record is so weird that I'll be happy to see him as an effective starter in consecutive seasons.  Winston is still a young guy.  The light went on for him last year.  I hope he's able to take things up a notch, but I'm just not sure that I should expect that to happen.  There isn't a clear line of progress and development with him. 

The backups are a mixed bag.  Dunlap has done enough to make you think he could still turn into a player, but I don't trust him.  We need a LT to challenge him for the backup spot.  Dallas Reynolds did some good things last summer.  I think he's a better player than the average fan realizes.  I've never been a fan of Max.  He was an underachiever at UGA and is the same type guy here.  Tupo is an interesting guy.  He spent the year on IR so that meant no practice time.  He was still able to sit in on film sessions and classroom stuff.  He should know the playbook inside out and be ready to show what he can do.  Tupo could be a backup at G and T. 

We need a backup who can play LT.  The guy should be versatile, though.  Peters and Justice are capable of starting for the next 4-5 years.  We don't need anyone at C, unless he's a clear upgrade over what we have.  The draft class is weak so I think we'll stick with what we have.  I'd love a mid to late round player brought in to challenge Max for a backup G spot.  Or we could add another OT and make Tupo's primary position G.  We need help with depth on the O-line, but we do have some good pieces in place.  Injuries really hurt in 2009.  We also struggled with all the change.  Too much shuffling and too many guys new to our offense. 

I know I've talked about Mike Iupati quite a bit.  He has special potential.  If he's on the board at 24 that could be a guy we grab and find a spot for.  You never want to pass on talent if you can help it.  Also, I say this every year, but it bears repeating.  We don't like pure Gs or Cs.  We prefer to take guys that played OT and move them inside.  John Welbourn, Hank Fraley, Jamaal Jackson, Todd H., Shawn Andrews, Nick Cole, and Mike McGlynn all played OT in college.  Most played LT.  Keep this in mind as we talk about prospects. 


ANSWERS


RE:  Alex Brown

I've not heard a thing about him as a target.  I think the Eagles would like to add a young DE to the mix. 


RE:  LB Eric Norwood

I've got notes to post on him for ScoutsNotebook.  Check there on Thursday evening. 


RE:  Shaun Rogers

I've wondered if he could be a player the Eagles might target to add to the DT mix.  He's huge, but also quick and disruptive.  Those guys aren't easy to find.  He has character issues, but has also played on some terrible teams.  That has to affect a guy.  Shaun just go arrested today for a gun incident at the airport, but I think that is more stupidity than any type of violence type issues.  He was caught with a loaded gun in a bag.  He says he forgot it was there and I can believe that. 


RE:  Earl Thomas / FS

Eric Berry and Earl are 1 and 2.  Big drop-off after that.  I think Nate Allen is 3.  I see him going in the early 2nd.  Eric and Earl are special.  Nate and the rest of the S prospects are good, but each has some question marks. 


RE:  hindsight on QB situation

The Eagles may have misplayed the Mike Vick situation.  He has too much baggage to demand a high price.  You have to negotiate differently with him than McNabb.  I really can't comment on Donovan until a deal goes down or doesn't go down.  If we land a high price, then they did things right. 

This is a complex situation.  Warren Moon is all up in arms about the way we handled it.  Gimme a break.  The minute we tell Donovan he's out of here and start aggressively shopping him the price drops.  Teams know we have to move him.  As dumb as it sounds, you have to play the "He's our #1 QB" card and act like there is a plan for keeping him.  That puts the pressure on teams to pry him away from you. 

The Eagles are catching a lot of flak right now, but that's because people don't know what is happening.  If the deal isn't going down it must be because Howie Roseman is an idiot and Andy Reid lost control of the team, right?  Gimme a break.  Roseman and Reid are talking to teams.  They are figuring out what is best for us.  Trading Donovan is complicated.  He's a star, but an older one in the final year of his deal.  This is a deep draft.  People don't want to give up picks. 

My calendar says April 1st.  If Donovan is here on May 1st then I will probably change my tune and say that Howie and Andy did screw up.  Let's see what happens.  There is more going on behind the scenes than people know. 


RE:  Gocong to CLE

This trade has been talked about for a few weeks.  It could go down anyday or drag on for a while.  I wonder if we're shopping Chris with McNabb as a package for some teams.  The Browns aren't in the McNabb hunt anymore.  Chris is being shopped. 


RE:  Sheldon

I am not sure what teams are interested in him.  I think he's worth a 3rd round pick.  I wonder if CLE might not take a look.  They could use CB help.  The Texans could also use help at CB.  I haven't heard a word about them dealing with anyone, but that could change. 


RE:  The Unit

I never watched the show when it was on CBS despite the fact I loved Shawn Ryan's work on The Shield and that I think David Mamet is a genius.  I am a huge fan of his style of dialogue.  The Unit has a simplified version.  It isn't as repetitive as most Mamet stuff, but has the same tone and style of delivery.  The show airs on Sleuth Network on Mondays and Saturday mornings.  I'm absolutely in love with the show.  Dennis Haysbert is brilliant as Master Sargent Jonas Blane.  Any time a military show is on broadcast TV there will be some cheesy moments and awkward action sequences, but I'm more interested in the characters and their interactions than anything else.  Very good writing and acting. 
___

32 comments:

eagles nut said...

Tommy, what's your take on the rumored interest in Seattle OG Rob Sims? If we acquired him, would he strictly be competition for Andrews and maybe Herremanns or could he fit into the equation at center as well?

T_S_O_P said...

My issue with Nick Cole is that after a year and a half starting in the NFL, his 11 quarters of OC pay were below that of JJ's when he took over from an injured Fraley. He did that from 3rd on the depth chart an with no NFL games under his belt.

Nick could do better, but hey he should have already done better. Color me dubious on Nick this upcoming season.

David said...

Do you really think King Dunlap has a future with the team? I'm no scout, but he's looked terrible enough to me that I'll be surprised if he even makes the roster this year. The fact that Andy refused to put him on the field at any point, no matter what the circumstances says about their lack of confidence in him.

Steven said...

Our backups are actually

LT: Herremans
LG: Cole
C: McGlynn
RG: Cole
RT: Andrews

That is if one guy gets injured.
McGlynn is going to be the most intriguing player on that line next year. This is the season I think that we will determine whether or not McGlynn is a bust.

What if a guy like Anthony Davis is available at pick 24? It's going to be really hard to pass on him.

Also what is your thoughts on Donovan Warren in the 4/5th round?

If the Eagles can't get a 1st or even a future 1st for McNabb they shouldn't trade him

Edward said...

Jamaal had been practising as a center though, nick hadn't for at least a season. Its not like our line played particularly well against dallas with JJ starting anyway. He's got the skillset to play center. We'll see i guess.

Steven said...

Quick comment on Fouku

Fouku was the SAM during both Cowboys games. Yet I saw a team that was completely horrible defending bubble screens. I kept seeing him get manhandled by Jason Witten. He also misread a play that lead to 66 yrd TD by Felix Jones. I think we need to improve that position but at least Gocong was solid.

T_S_O_P said...

Edward, wasn't JJ promoted from the practise squad? He had spent an entire year on IR. He didn't practise with the 1's or the 2's and had never played a game. Nick should have done better despite not practising for some time at Centre, he had prior NFL experience at the position and had a year as the back up before the Denver game.

In his defense, Cole, though versatile at college, never played Centre whereas JJ played his senior season at the position after years at LT.

Steven said...

Jamaal was drafted in 2003 and was the backup center in 2005. He started the last 6 games of the 2005 season and beat out Hank Fraley in 2006 for the starting C job.

BTW whatever happened to LeCharles Bentley?

Edward said...

Well, i stand corrected TSOP!

Fingers crossed an offseason of practise helps him improve massively.

T_S_O_P said...

Steven, when Fraley was injured vs Washington, Trey Darilek the back up number 2 centre took over for the rest of that game. JJ wasn't active as ever upto that point. Therefore it is fair to assume that he was not getting snaps with the 1's or the 2's as the were going to Hank and Trey (the back up for the first 9 games of 2005).

On furhter checking he was on the PS upto that point as he isn't anywhere on the 53 for the game

http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/28653/WAS_Gamebook.pdf

T_S_O_P said...

Edward, if JJ was able to make the leap from PS to starting centre in the middle of a season and in 1 games notice, (not ideal preperation) then a player with an equal amount of experience Dallas Reynolds or with more NFL experience in McGlynn with far more preperation, should give us viable options if Nick isn't the answer.

Dan said...

@ Steven:

LeCharles Bentley retired following a staph infection after his knee surgery. Two other Browns - Winslow and Jurevicus - got staph, too. I think Jurevicus is actually suing them now and expected to get a nice chunk of change for his troubles.

Steven said...

would you trade McNabb and Stacy Andrews to Oakland for the 8th pick overall?

Baloophi said...

Tommy -

Thanks for "The Unit" write-up. It's been added to my cue.

I talked with Shawn Ryan for a couple minutes during the writers' strike and he seems like a smart guy. I felt bad because I didn't have anything to say about his shows, but now I will the next time we're forced into a depressing work stoppage! Yay!

I'm a Mamet fan, too (I've always liked "The Spanish Prisoner" and obviously "Glengarry"). We were actually just reading his memo to the writers of "The Unit" the other day in our own room. (most of his rules apply to comedy, too)

http://www.movieline.com/2010/03/david-mamets-memo-to-the-writers-of-the-unit.php


But all of that said, I think I'm most excited to see Pedro Cerrano lead a delta force.

em26jamie said...

No Barry Switzer references for Shaun Rogers?

Eddie said...

OMG, did anyone of you guys know that AJ Edds is a long snapper and a good one too. if we draft we and he could play SAM and LS. That not only Gives us a better tackling options that jon but and it frees up a roster spot. this is the video is shows him Long Snapping at the End.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d817462dc/2010-Draft-Vignettes-A-J-Edds-Iowa

Pitmanite said...

we bring in big, mauling run blockers & then turn them into pass blockers. we talk about bringing in big RBs even though we don't give them touches or run the ball period. we like to make DEs into SAM linebackers and WLBs into SAM LBs and MLBs into WLBs. we take 1 technique DTs (Laws) and play them in a 2 technique system, or was that the other way around...i'm not sure since we still haven't figured that out. can we draft guys who naturally fit a position or style of play and just play them there?

additionally, we apparently run the most complicated offense & defense in the nfl because over the years i've heard the following everytime a particular player(s) struggles: RB in the eagles system is so complicated because the playbook is so big and the eagles demand so much out of their RBs. WR is so complicated to learn in the eagles system bc of the terminology and what they demand out of them. DB is such a hard position to play because of JJs unbelievably complex defensive schemes so just wait like 5 to 7 years. then most times when we actually get a real player at a position, they produce in 1 to 2 years tops. anyway, you'd think i was a browns fan complaining about a franchise who hadn't made the playoffs in 10 years. really it's just been a long offseason so far, so i just wanted to get back into my mid-season complaining form.

Tom Ballman said...

S W E E T >>>>Sheldon and Gocong to CLE... For.... How about a D'Qwell and a third/fourth? or second and a fifth?

ZackISM said...

Tommy,

What's you're stance on the Gocong/Brown trade?

My glass is empty (yeah, not even half full) view is another nail in the coffin for the 2010 season. We are going to be the youngest team in the NFL - so if Reid (and yourself) are right, and I'm wrong - we'll be set up well for a long, long time. If I'm right, I guess we'll be looking at a top draft pick in 2011 (assuming there is a season).

Cliff said...

I would love D'Qwell Jackson! So much so, that I had to put that in bold and italics.

So Cal EaglesFan said...

Hey Tommy,
I read a report saying that the Eagles and Browns have a deal almost finalized that would send Sheldon and Gocong to the Browns for either two picks and a backup or one pick and a veteran as long as Sheldon signs a new deal. Have you heard anything about this or when it could be completed?

Dominic said...

Agreed with Cliff, D'Qwell plus a 3rd round pick would be awesome. That way would we could package, our 2nd and a combination of our 3rd round pick to move up in the second round nab some of the stellar talent that slipped out of the first (Nate Allen, Pouncey, McCourty).

So Cal EaglesFan said...

trade completed. . .
Eagles get Alex Hill LB, 4th and 5th round picks for Sheldon and Gocong. Tommy what you think? I think we did not get enough.

Eddie said...

More like CB Sheldon Brown and LB Chris Gocong to the Cleveland Browns for LB Alex Hall, a 4th round draft choice (105th overall) and a 5th round draft choice (137th overall) in 2010. its offical BTW

bonez said...

Talk about getting robbed...

2 adequate starters on defense should never be traded away for 2 low-mid round selections and a LB who couldn't get on the field for one of the worst teams in the league.

This certainly worries me about what compensation we will eventually net in a McNabb trade.

Steven said...

ALEX HALL?!!?!?!

COME ON! We could have gotten atleast a 3rd for Sheldon? I am not one of those people who bash the Eagles constantly but this trade was AWFUL.

Dominic said...

Wow, we got fleeced by the Browns.

Cliff said...

You guys are saying we got robbed...

But look at the facts. Gocong was NOT a starter on this team. He was supplanted last season by a 7th round rookie. Sheldon is 31 years old and wants a new contract.

I thought we needed a 3rd round pick in the deal, but seriously, we did not get "fleeced." You guys are acting like we just traded away DeSean Jackson or something.

Cliff said...

Another thing... head over to the Cleveland Browns' blogs. I'm sure fans are saying "who the fuck is Chris Gocong?" And their version of Tommy Lawlor is saying, "He stinks in coverage and was replaced by a rookie last season." This is quickly followed by Browns fans cutting eye holes in fresh paper bags.

bonez said...

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2010/4/2/1402188/browns-get-gocong-and-sheldon-brown#comments

That doesn't sound like a group of fans that are cutting eye holes in paper bags to me.

Dominic said...

Well, I'm worried because we traded away our steadiest corner when we already had a problem with our pass defense for a 4th and 5th round pick. The Hill for Gocong part, I'm not too worried about. I see what they like in Alex Hall, from his height and weight, he reminds me a bit of Carlos Emmons.

OtherWhiteMatt said...

A third would have been nice, but if we could've gotten a third we would have. He wasn't worth a third.

I like the trade. Its a deep draft and we get rid of a disgruntled player and another player we never could figure out how to use properly.

Oh, and if McNabb isn't here May 1st, I will think Howie and Andy messed up royally.