Wednesday, April 28, 2010

Draft Review is Finally Done

***

Sorry for the long delay.  I wanted to write out something after taking an extra look at a couple of players.  I also wanted to include the UDFAs.  The Eagles kept signing guys and that delayed things.  Anyway...here goes:

2010 Draft Review 

It is kinda long (about 14 Word pages) so I didn't bother posting it here.  Let me know if any of the links don't work.  Let me know if I made any major mistakes.  I've read the thing several times and if I haven't caught the error yet, I never will. 


NEW KID

The Eagles claimed OG Shawn Murphy off waivers the other day.  Good.  He was one of my favorite O-linemen a few drafts ago.  He's likely just a camp body at this point, but we'll see.  I haven't watched him in the NFL.  He has good size at 6'4, 315.  Played LT and G in college. 


ANSWERS

RE:  Tapp vs Graham

Huge difference.  Graham was dominant in college.  Tapp was an effort guy.  Darryl is an effort guy in the NFL.  Brandon is special because he combines speed/quickness, skill, and effort.  You never know what happens when guys get to the league.  Brandon could turn out to be a bust.  He also has the potential to become a star pass rusher.  Tapp could be a real solid player for us, but isn't likely to ever be a difference maker. 

I'll write more about Graham in the next couple of weeks.  I'll re-watch several games and we'll try to get detailed as to what he does and what he can do in the NFL.  


RE:  Earl Thomas vs Nate Allen

I'll be interested to see if Earl starts right away for Seattle.  We needed someone ready to challenge for the FS job from day one.  I think Nate has a great chance to start for us.  Earl might be more of a project.  He only started for 2 years and spent most of his time playing against spread teams.  It will be fun to see if Nate can outdo Earl or if in fact Earl does become a special NFL player. 
___

45 comments:

Edward said...

Good review Tommy, interesting stuff on each prospect. Really excited to see Coleman in camp.

You mention again Tommy that Te'o is purely an effort rusher. I still don't get that. His measurables combined with the manner in which he made many of his plays in college doesn't scream effort only to me. Yeah he plays like he's on fire and the QB is water but he combines that with skill and athleticism. He looks quicker on tape than graham for instance. I don't get why he isn't considered athletic.

Edward said...

That sounded very ungrateful! Cheers for the great stuff as always. Just can't get my head around Te'o's scouting report.

Tommy Lawlor said...

I never thought Teo looked very athletic on tape. I was shocked when I saw his Combine numbers.

Some guys work out real well, but you just don't see the athleticism on the field.

Maybe I'm missing something. Maybe I'm so focused on effort that I'm overlooking natural ability.

I'd love Teo to come in and light it up and look like an athletic pass rusher. That would be great.

Tommy Lawlor said...

Edward,

Nothing wrong at all with your first post. We're all Eagles fans here. You can ask an aggressive question.

Edward said...

I guess he doesn't have a great first step but he seems to have great pop and pretty good change of direction. Definitely a player i'm rooting for in camp.

Ben said...

For some reason when I read the Jeff Owens review I thought of Sam Rayburn. Reasonable?

Thanks again Tommy

Myron said...

I have a feeling that what this draft will come down to, when it's all said and done, is whether or not Earl Thomas is a better safety than Brandon Graham is a defensive end, or vice versa.

Myron said...

And nice review, by the way. Thanks for putting the time and effort into this.

Baloophi said...

@ Myron

Earl Thomas plays for the Seahawks. He was obviously never a part of our plans or we would have taken him. Did you hear it was a coin flip between Graham and Thomas or something? I haven't. And you can make the same argument for any player selected after Graham if you want but why would you do that to us, Myron? Why? Time to let it go and find a new topic to beat to death.


@ Tommy

Thank you! That was some work on the review. I'm excited for camp but I'm wondering if there are enough reps to go around! I think there will be some fierce competition at DB, and I'm excited to see Harbor/Ingram/Rucker duke it out. Also, Castillo's got some work to do with those 2nd and 3rd year players fighting for their lives.

Tommy Lawlor said...

Rayburn was bigger at 6'3. Jeff is more of a squatty guy. Both are very strong. I don't think Jeff will ever have 6 sacks in a season (Sam did), but Jeff is probably the better run defender.

Matt said...

Tommy, one thing that stood out to me was Houston trading one spot ahead of the Eagles for Ben Tate. Then later the Dolphins traded two spots ahead of the Eagles for AJ Edds. In both cases, the Eagles traded back. That hinted to me that maybe we missed out on two guys we were interested in and decided to move back and try for another guy.

Anders said...

When looking at the current roster, I can actully see every 13 draft picks make the team.

Tommy Lawlor said...

Very possible. The bottom of the draft will have to fight for roster spots, but they face winnable battles.

This isn't like some years when you know the late round guys are going to be on the Practice Squad.

Dominic said...

Tommy,

As usual, this is a great job. It must be so much work to scout all of these players, I am amazed by your knowledge of these college prospects.

How do you think the defense backfield is going shake out for the Eagles next year? There are a lot of players and a lot of question marks. To me, only Asante and Quintin have a spot locked in. I'd guess Hobbs and Allen have the inside track to start at other positions. Where do Marlin Jackson, Macho Harris, Lindley and Joselio fit in?

Myron said...

Baloophi: I know I sound like a broken record, but I kept hearing Mike Mayock (expert on DBs) say that Earl Thomas was the "most instinctive free safety" he's seen in the past 10 years. That's heavy. It bugs me that the consensus among the fans and the experts was that the Eagles would draft the Thomas and have themselves an interception-machine playmaker in the secondary for years to come and instead reach for a DE that was 2nd or 3rd on most peoples' big boards behind Morgan and Pierre-Paul.

After we traded for Tapp, I felt that going DB in the first round was necessary, and going DE in the first round was completely superfluous, and when we traded up to #13 I got excited that we could come away with Mayock's #1 safety, a safety he has said will be the next Ed Reed-like player, and the safety that he thinks is even BETTER than Eric Berry in coverage and against the pass. But alas, we get a DE, a position with a 50% bust rate in the first round.

It's disappointing because I can already feel that this will be the big mistake of this draft class when we see Earl Thomas post 9 interception seasons with the Hawks and Graham turns into merely a "solid" DE akin to what Tapp already brought to the table.

Myron said...

Not to mention that Jerry Jones and the Cowboys had Earl Thomas ranked in the top 10 players on their big board, and had merely a second round grade on Graham.

And Chris Steuber went on Daily News Live and said that passing on Thomas and going for Graham was the "biggest mistake" of the first round.

The more I read/hear draft reports and think about it, I'm beginning to realize that neglecting the secondary and going DL in the first round is going to seriously hurt this team next year.

Steven said...

I see you left out Omar Gaither on your depth chart. Do you think he'll get cut? As far as im concerned Gaither >>> Mays

Netherman said...

@Myron, can we just agree to end this particular discussion and in three years if Thomas turns out to be a stud and Graham doesn't you can rub all our noses in it and Sackseer us to death for like a whole week?

I am much more interested in things like, how does Macho project as a CB at the pro level? Is he fast enough to be more than just a nickel back?

Cliff said...

Myron, please don't ever use Jerry Jones as a defense ever again.

Carson's said...

Or Chris Stueber...

Myron just let it go. Graham is an Eagle now, root for him not against!

Eddie said...

bro the eagles are a professional team the know how to scout, sure they have been wrong but so have every team in the NFL, like i said before graham is 100 times a better fit in phily than Thomas, i dont want to see thomas as the last man of defense vs Brandon Jacobs/Barber/Portis. i remember you said mel kiper and todd mcshay but i would like to add that midway through the college season they thought Snead would go 1st overall, and he ending up not getting drafted. also its a know fact that nfl scouts dont like either of them as Todd McShay doesn't scout as much as he should a goes more on hearsay rather that his own opinion. he rubs scouts the wrong way and kiper was like that a couple of years ago but a nfl source reported that he "stopped burning bridges, and McShay should do the same.

Pitmanite said...

myron,

i was told in confidence that daniel snyder had b. graham ranked well ahead of e. thomas on his draft board. additionally, i was reading this article called InterceptionSeeker and it stated in its study DBs with arms shorter than 32" (earl: 31.5") and hands smaller than 9.5" (earl: 9-3/8") were 98% more likely to be busts.

so taking the above into account, i think you can rest easy and just wait for the games to start to see if we (i say we bc i'm involved in all eagles personnel decisions) made the right decision.

Jason said...

Honestly, the Graham/Thomas conversation is getting old. Myron, as much as you think we may have missed on that pick, we will just have to wait and see. I have yet to see you acknowledge the fact that we still drafted another safety and that Allen will play a role in this conversation in the future. For all we know, Thomas may never have been on the Eagles board. Ultimately though, this conversation really has no where to go, at least until we see how they play out their rookie year, and even then we most likely have few more years before we know anything significant. For all we know, Thomas may not get a single interception this year and Graham my not get a single sack. Let's just wait to see what happens and then try to decide if the Eagles were right or wrong in choosing Graham over Thomas

AD said...

I hate to say bust, but did anyone catch Chucky's show when he was working with the draft picks? Earl Thomas looked and acted like he knew it all...good luck with him.

I liked Nate Allen as an over-all player, plus there were a lot of scouts that had Nate as their second rated FS safety.

Earl Thomas reminds me of Girbrel Wilson. Over-rated ballskills and a poor tackler. I think Nate Allen may not have the same upside but I doubt if Thomas would start on our defense. He couldn't handle the pressure to perform here and throwing him out on the field with Seattle will be just as bad, if not worse.

I am much more comfortable with Nate, he can and will tackle, we don't need another player who will be making career decisions about tackling in our defensive backfield, one is enough!!

Kevin said...

If Earl Thomas was so great, why did he go @14 and Berry @5? Cleveland, Oakland, Jacksonville, Miami, Houston, Philly & SF ALL had holes at S...and they all passed on Earl Thomas.

We didn't pass on Eric Berry. We passed on a S who would instantly be the worst tackler in the NFCE.

Jason said...

@AD and Kevin,

As much as I disagree with Myron about his assessment of our pick, I think having the attitude that Thomas will bust and not be able to handle the NFL or be the worst tackler in the NFCE is equally over the top. I mean come on, Earl Thomas can't be a worse tackler than Asante. All kidding aside, both Graham and Thomas will likely be at least solid NFL starters. The point that Myron is arguing is whether we missed out on the guy who will become special. I honestly think Graham has just as much the potential that Thomas has to become special, but only time will tell. Regardless, the Eagles picked up Graham, so we should all be hoping that they found a guy who will be a special DE. That being said, lets not pretend that because the Eagles did not pick Thomas, that he is a bad player.

frankfurtler said...

Keebler Elves!

Great Review, Thanks!

T_S_O_P said...

@Netherman

I look forward to seeing Macho at RCB on regular downs and in the slot on passing downs. His combine 40 was a surprise to everyone as far as I remember particularly when you look at his 10 and 20 splits. He posted a 40 at his pro day that bettered the player whose number he has replaced and whose position he will replace.

Edward said...

Blimey didn't realise he ran a 4.46 at his pro day. I really hope they put him in the competition at RCB. Love the way Macho plays.

Cliff said...

@ TSOP

I really think Maco is the answer at CB that most fans are overlooking. It's well documented that I am a hugely biased fan of Macho's, but it's not unwarranted.

It has to say something that he was given so much responsibility in his ROOKIE season: asked to start at FS, asked to cover the best TE in NFL history, etc. He had his rookie growing pains, sure, but I'll be ready to say "told you so" when he challenges for the starting RCB spot in his sophomore season.

Edward said...

http://subscribers.footballguys.com/2009/09bramel_idpguide.php

Awesome insight into a NFL defences. I've learnt quite a bit in the first couple of paragraphs. Derek at Igglesblog posted it but i thought i'd post it here in case anyone didn't notice it.

Edward said...

That article talks about under fronts such as the one Tampa ran with Warren Sapp. It isn't mentioned in the article but surely any offensive coordinator seeing that would simply run to the strong side over and over?

Tom Ballman said...

Re: Earl Thomas lovefest...Could it be he reportedly scored a 13 in the Wonderlic and won't turn 21 'til next month? The article cites maturity as an issue.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2010/04/22/okung-thomas-provide-instant-impact-in-seattle

Adam said...

Do you have any opinion on adding Pacman to play CB?

Christian said...

Wow what a great job you did with this. Especially with later round guys and UDFA. Nothing equals this! Awesome!

Could you please write something about McD. different style to Jim Johnson. Some say, that JJ was great with exotic blitzes and McD wants to be great with exotic coverages. JJ needed great CB to cover for his blitzes but an around average line. McD needs a great line and average CBs. Is that the reason why we don´t have a starting CB in mini camp? (Ellis and Jackson are still injured)

Who is avaible maybe? Still R.Marshall? Some other dude?
Would you trade for someone?

Jason said...

@Adam

Beyond the obvious baggage and distractions he would bring, is he even talented anymore? I'm not 100% sure that talent-wise he would be much of an improvement for our defense.

T_S_O_P said...

@ Cliff
I was extactic when we picked Macho last year and I agree wholeheartedly with everything you have written. So maybe there is a bias, but like you I don't see it as unwarranted. Macho is the type of player you want on the football field whether it be FS, RCB or even maybe SS down the line.

Myron said...

Christian: That's a really great topic for an article.

I've been curious myself about that one: is McDermott more of a cover guy who wants to bring pressure with an elite front four? Was JJ more of a blitz guy who wanted elite man corners to cover while he blitzed with linebackers and safeties?

Despite seeing McD blitz often in 2009, do we get the sense that he only did this in a perfunctory way in his first year and instead yearns to make his own mark in a different fashion than JJ's way?

I'd love to see someone with in-depth knowledge of this stuff expound on the difference between the two coordinators.

Edward said...

@ Myron, Christian

While Derek at Igglesblog isn't an ex coach or anything he has a good handle on that sort of thing. He's covered the JJ/McD thing a few times, even has an article up on it at the mo. Worth reading.

http://www.igglesblog.com/

Adam said...

@Jason that was really my question: whether anyone knows if hes even good anymore.

with what we've become accustomed to up here i wouldn't have even considered him, but now we're looking at some combination of injured guys (marlin jackson), guys who would be playing out of position, not to mention never having played CB in the big leagues (macho, nate allen), and guys who weren't that good to begin with (hobbs, hanson)

if Pacman were going to be a legit improvement at RCB, I'd hope the baggage wasn't the only thing preventing us from looking into him

Cliff said...

@ TSOP

And if we're looking for a physical corner to replace Sheldon, Macho's the guy. I feel like he played slower last season due to "thinking too much," especially simce he was out of position.

If he gets a handle on things, Macho can really lay a hit. We all saw how physical he can be when taking on Tony Gonzalez. There's a reason he was nicknamed "Macho."

Tommy Lawlor said...

The next person who mentions PacMan Jones as a legit Eagles target will have to deal with the Bore Worms.

He isn't a good enough player to be worth the hassle.

I'm not looking for Boy Scouts necessarily, but if you have baggage you better be one hell of a player.

There is a reason that PacMan has been lonelier than a hitchhiker with pets...the risk isn't worth the reward.

mcud77 said...

No!!! Not the Bore Worms!!!

Netherman said...

You guys are really pumping me up with the Macho talk...I admit I don't follow the college ball till draft time, so I don't know a lot about people beyond the first few rounds. I was always under the impression that he deserved more time at safety, but with a need at corner and Allen here, I hope he gets a legit shot at CB. 4.46 is certainly not "slouch" speed.

arby said...

"lonelier than a hitchhiker with pets"
LOL.

Thanks for the write-up.