Friday, April 9, 2010

QB Talk


Paul Domowitch had a piece up where he reported that the Eagles are still shopping Michael Vick.  Domo said that he's heard the team doesn't trust Vick as the backup QB.  Andy Reid sees him as a role player.  Rather than adding a rookie to the mix with Vick and Kevin Kolb the team will pursue a veteran QB.  Domo mentions Marc Bulger as a potential target.  That's probably just speculation. 

I cannot confirm or deny this report.  I haven't heard anything about Vick in the last few weeks.  I can only speculate on the situation.  Frankly, I'm not sure what to think.  Vick absolutely didn't show me enough to be a full-time starter in 2010.  That's why teams didn't want to deal for him.  The Eagles wanted compensation for a starter and no team in the NFL is ready to turn their offense over to Vick right now. 

Vick did get better as the season wore on.  I became comfortable with him as a role player and backup.  I'd be fine with him as the backup in theory, but I would not feel good with him taking over if Kolb got hurt and was going to miss several games.  Mike was 6 of 13 as a passer last year.  He'll have a full offseason, but I just don't know if he'll be ready to man the helm of a passing offense. 

The Eagles could deal him for a later pick and then take a QB in the draft.  Obviously we'd have to add a veteran as well.  There are not great options.  Jeff Garcia comes to mind.  Bulger isn't real appealing to me.  We could trade for Tyler Thigpen.  He's a player we had interest in a few drafts ago. 

As for the draft class...there are no great options.  There are several guys I'm interested in, but they each have major flaws.  I would not be comfortable relying on any of these players any time soon.  There has been talk linking us to Tim Tebow.  There are a couple of things to consider.  First, there is the real possibility that Big Red likes him.  Tebow could replace Vick as the Wildcat QB.  He could be an offensive gimmick for us to use (you know, instead of running normal plays like the rest of the NFL world).  We could try to develop Tebow to deal him in a couple of years for a king's ransom. 

I'm hoping that the Eagles are floating the Tebow stories so that they can convince teams in the late 1st or early 2nd to trade up for him.  We may not have great options at 24, depending on how things break.  There could be several offensive targets, but limited choices on defense.  If so, trading back would be ideal. 


Adam Schefter reported that the Eagles dealt McNabb to WAS in order to keep the Skins from drafting QB Sam Bradford.  I'm calling BS.  Bradford is likely going first overall to the Rams.  How exactly is McNabb stopping that?  My guess is that someone with the Eagles leaked this rumor to ease the backlash from trading a star QB within the division.  A for effort and creativity.  F for logic. 


RE:  Kyle Wilson and Pass Int? 

He is an aggressive CB.  A lot of college guys develop bad habits regarding contact.  In college ball you can do anything you want to a receiver until the ball is in the air.  I see lots of DBs that have to learn to play hands off. 

RE:  Richard Marshall

He would likely be a 2nd round player.  I do think he's a solid fit for us.  Check out his tackle numbers.  Real aggressive run defender.  Makes his share of plays.  Comfortable in Cover 2 or Man.  The Panthers played mostly Cover 2 last year.  They may feel like he's expendable because they need front seven guys and can plug in a young corner to their system. 

RE:  McNabb to Redskins means a loss or 2 for us? 

Let's save this discussion for after the draft.  We need to talk at length on this.  Please bring the question up when I can really get into it.  Good subject for debate. 

RE:  Donovan Warren

Mid to late round guy.  I never thought he was great.  Underclassmen should only come out when they had a great year or are just ready for the NFL.  He doesn't fit either category.  I doubt he's on the Eagles draft board. 

RE:  big backs a decoy?

Very possible.  Reid mixes in some wicked curveballs.  However, I think the interest is legit.  McCoy is 210 or so, but sure doesn't run like a physical back.  He's a slasher.  We could use a N-S guy who runs behind his pads and packs a wallop. 

RE:  Taylor Mays - high character?

Mays has never been in trouble.  Good, clean kid.  However, I don't know that I'd call him a high-character football player.  Those guys are willing to do anything to win.  Anything.  Mays is a showboat type.  I"m reminded of an exchange from the underrated Less Than Zero.  "You don't look happy."  "But do I look good?"  I grew up watching punishers like Wes Hopkins, Andre Waters, Ronnie Lott, and Kenny Easley.  The last thing I want is a FS that likes to look in the mirror and admire his body.  Give me the guy who is eating a bowl of nails while sipping battery acid to make sure he's in a bad mood for the game. 

Back to the point of Mays & the Eagles...I haven't heard if they like him or not.  They very well could.  He's not my cup of tea, but we don't yet know what Sean McDermott is really looking for. 

RE:  Kolb /  offense changing

It will.  Post-draft discussion material. 

RE:  Maurkice Pouncey

He will not be an Eagle.  We're going with Cole/McGlynn at C. 

RE:  RB Toney Baker

He's got an extensive injury history.  We'll trade up for him.  Joking, of course.  Baker is a real good RB when healthy, but I see him as probably a 7th or UDFA.  We could easily add him if we do take a smaller RB earlier in the draft.  Baker could be a good role player for us. 

RE:  John Jerry

I like him as an Eagles target.  I loved him before we found out his Wonderlic was brutally low.  He played RT and RG at Ole Miss.  He has the size we like.  He's big and strong.  He would give us insurance at both spots.  John has talked about being able to play LT.  I'm not so sure of that.  John could be a target with the late 2 or either 3rd round pick. 

@ Myron ... dream draft scenario

I like your thinking.  DB/Hughes/LB would be terrific in my mind. 

RE:  Koa Misi / Rennie Curran

Misi is a better prospect than Gocong.  Koa has spent more time playing off the ball and in space.  He's also used to better competition.  He played at the Senior Bowl and stood out.  I think he could be a terrific SAM.  He probably won't be an Eagle.  Koa should go in the 2nd and I think we'll look more for a WLB. 

Curran is ideally suited for the Tampa 2.  He could play for us.  Rennie is small, but physical.  He's a much better prospect than Keith Adams, who was a functional times. 


Håkan said...

The worst thing about the McNabb trade, other than the fact that Im convinced that Kolb is the 2nd coming of Bobby Hoying, is that I will now, also, be cheering for the Redskins.

Damn you Banner! Damn you!

Arno said...

Until what time can a team decide to offer a pick to a restricted free agent? Draft day?

What if no good prospect is left at pick 55, can the Eagles chose to trade the pick to the Panthers for Marshall?

Tommy Lawlor said...

The deadline for signing RFAs is coming up soon. It doesn't go all the way to the draft.

There will be good players at 55.

We could always trade with Carolina on draft day if we wanted.

@ Hakan...

Watching him play for WAS will be tough on all of us. Just remember that is what Donnie asked for. We did him a favor by sending him there.

Prem Prakash said...

Regarding the Eagles having trouble getting value for Vick, I blame Reid for not putting him on the field more last year. I think there were muliple ways he could have been on the field at the same time as McNabb. Using him almost exclusivly as a wildcat qb didn't showcase him at all. It's a mess right now because he's a $5mil backup qb who doesn't want to be backup. Maybe it would be a good thing to have Bulger as the #2 because he's a vet who would be satisfied with his role and support Kolb.

Pitmanite said...

@ Tommy

Don't you think it's convenient now for the Eagles to say that they sent McNabb there as a favor because it makes them seem compassionate, and may draw sympathy from a lot of people who are criticizing them for dealing in the division?

I thought that the 1 year left on his contract was almost like a no trade clause. I know we say the Raiders weren't worried about that, but we're not certain. If Donnie's agent was telling Buffalo & Oakland that there was no chance he would sign an extension w/ them, I think that would scare them off. Maybe Washington was the only real player willing to give up a 2nd rounder that Donnie was willing to sign an extension with?

I guess I really don't care because what's done is done. Whatever the reasons are it doesn't really change anything, but I'm just curious from all the speculation. Ultimately, I think we did what was best for us,

I like your theory on Schefter being used on the blocking Bradford tidbit. I don't think any team makes a personnel decision, not in their best interest, to block what another team "might do."

Pitmanite said...

I really think we're going to trade up in the 1st round if one of our guys is on the board. I looked at the trade chart and the 18th pick in the draft is worth 900 points. If one of our guys is sitting there we could trade #24 and the #87 pick and it comes to 855 points. I know the trade chart isn't a perfect measure, but if E. Thomas or K. Wilson is sitting there at #11 and I'd make that move. We'd still have our two 2nd rounders and the #70 pick in the 3rd. Who the heck knows what will happen, but I just know that there is no way the Eagles use all 4 picks in the 2nd & 3rd rounds.

Pitmanite said...

sorry, should've said 895 points.

Edward said...

It is slightly ridiculous that the difference between a 1st and 2nd round pick is always percieved as a constant by the media. Articles are slating the Eagles for not getting a first and suggesting that a second rounder is poor value. Had we got Minnesota's first rounder (#30) i can guarantee that the perception of the deal would be vastly different, even though the pick we got, while being a second rounder is only 7 picks lower at #37.

I'm very happy with the pick, should make draft day a hell of a lot more exciting.

Steven said...

What happens to a restricted FA if he doesn't sign his tender?

Myron said...

I'm glad you set the record straight regarding Maurkice Pouncey in the first round, Tommy.

I can't tell you how many discussions I've had with Eagles fans both online and offline, and how many mock drafts I've seen, in which Pouncey is a projected pick @ #24. They argue that the offensive line was the big problem last year, and Nick Cole sucks, etc. But I keep telling them that Andy is an OL guru and knows he has one of the best OL coaches (Castillo) in the NFL working for him. He would rather spend a low round pick or find an UDFA to develop than find a OL starter in the first round. His ego is telling him that he can polish any OL turd he finds, imho.

At least, I hope that's how it is. If we come away from the 2010 draft without two solid defensive prospects from the first two rounds, I'll be disappointed.

mcud77 said...


The deadline for RFAs to sign offer sheets with other teams is April 15.

mcud77 said...


RFAs are free to sign with their original teams at any time. 4/15 is merely the deadline that another team can sign them.

Cliff said...

I wouldn't characterize the Vick situation as a "mess." He's the back-up and he'll be used in the wildcat more this season. There's nothing saying we have to trade him for less than we want or whatever. Vick isn't demanding a trade or to be the starter.

Where's the mess?

Prem Prakash said...


Here's why I call the Vick situation a mess.

1. The Eagles want to deal him and they can't get value for him. They can't because last year they never established his worth.

2. I believe he is making $5mil this year. I'm not sure what they going rate is for a #2qb, but I'd bet this is money that could be better spent elsewhere.

3. Vick has neither the level of experience or, presumably, the mature tempremant to mentor Kolb. Even if Kevin doesn't need an actual mentor, the guy holding the clipboard could be a pillar for him when things get tough.

4. Put yourself in Vick's shoes. The clock is ticking on his career. He wants to be a starter or at least compete for a starting position. This ain't going to happen with the Eagles. Even in training cam, Kolb is going to need all the snaps he can get. In spite of his Vick's goals, he needs to keep his mouth shut and not make waves because of his unique situation. This can't be easy. This isn't a great arrangement for Kolb's first lockeroom.

5. I'm yet to be impressed with the wildcat, at least the way the Eagles used it last year. The Eagles need to pound the rock more, they don't need another trick. I know this is a different topic, but it points to the limted value Vick holds for the team.

I wonder if Donovan is going to miss us -- in the dark of the off-season we still find time to debate Eagles topics. Does any other team have fans like us?

bp said...

tommy, was wondering if you got a chance to read the 'moving the chains' piece on sheldon? while his play definitely slipped a bit down the stretch last year, and he wasn't getting any younger, with his workmanlike team-first attitude, i always thought of him as more or less the quintessential philly athlete.

in the piece, there is an implied suggestion (either by sheldon or the author) that asante was often unwilling to buy into mcdermott's defensive game planning and more or less refused to play press when so instructed. while i certainly appreciate the picks (even though my grandmother could probably come up with at least a couple if she jumped as many routes as asante), as the highest paid and most veteran defender on our team, i can't say i'm too excited to have a kyle wilson or earl thomas coming in here and learning how to be professionals from an overpaid me-first defender.

i generally find that the eagles take a fairly active role in managing the rumor mill concerning their own players. inasmuch as there were asante whispers floating around before the sheldon and mcnabb trades (which you pretty strongly quelched), what's the back story there? was it purely bogus speculation from salpal or one of our other journalistic wunderkinds, was it intentionally floated by someone in the front office as a wake up call to asante (andy was quoted fairly concurrently saying they expected better play from him), or -- with as young as we appear to be going across the board -- is there any chance it might actually have some legs? in this db draft class, i'd jump at a late 2nd if another team were willing to take on samuel's contract, though mostly dictated by my personal dislike of his (at least partially system designed) style of play.

arby said...

@Pitmanite - re: trading up to 18.

I can see doing it for Earl Thomas but I wonder if Kyle Wilson is that much better than Devin McCourty or Kareem Jackson who we could conceivable get at 37. I know he IS better, but by how much.
I'm thinking that we could definitely use all those picks in the 1st 3 rounds. We could easily fill 5 of the following positions: CB, FS, WILL, RB, OL, and QB. If it's someone who is head and shoulders better than the next player on the chart - a "difference maker", fine; otherwise, I'd rather use our later round picks to move up a few slots here or there like we did last year with Maclin.

Myron said...

Does anyone here think that taking Brandon Spikes in the 2nd or 3rd round might be a smart move?

This guy was a first round prospect in 2008, but ever since he ran a 5.0 40 he has been dropping like a rock on draft boards.

But despite the 40, he's still the smart, instinctual heavy hitting LB he was throughout college. Might the 40 be misleading and this could be a huge sleeper in this year's draft? Could be the next Ray Lewis sitting there in the 3rd round.

Edward said...

Dave's latest article really sounds like he's expecting a trade sometime before the draft. Anyone else get that vibe from it? Seems to be more than just conjecture. Not enough if's.

arby said...

Here's a trade idea: Trevor Laws and Asante Samuel to Tampa Bay for the #3 pick. Not sure if Laws fits their defensive style but it would give them their coveted d-tackle who just doesn't fit our system. Asante is the real enticement though. And I'm happy to see him go because of sloppy tackling and more importantly, he doesn't follow orders to press. We take Eric Berry #3 and Kyle Wilson with #24 and Kareem Jackson #37. Presto changeo - whole new defensive backfield.

arby said...

Hell, I'd even throw in our 2nd 3rd rounder to sweeten the pot...

Pitmanite said...

@ arby

I agree with your point on Wilson. I also agree we could use all of our picks in the first 3 rounds, since we definitely have the holes. I just don't think the Eagles will use all their picks in rounds 2 and 3. Similar to the patriots it seems like they love to acquire a bunch of picks for each draft. Just looking at their history it's likely that they use 3 or at most 4 of our first 5 picks and then add picks in next year's draft.

arby said...


They could very well set themselves up for next year's draft but keep in mind that this is a particularly deep draft this year - who knows about next year. And we have more holes than we've had in the last few years.

arby said...

My last post of the day, promise!, sort of...

Not that it applies to any of the posters here but the Onion takes on Philly fans to humorous effect:,17235/